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Comments - Bib Straps Like Emery Boards
June 25, 2010
Re. No-chamois bib tights: "Am I missing something?"
Yes. I have around a half a dozen pairs of bibs which means I can do laundry once a week. If I add one pair of bib tights, I can maintain this regime through the winter by layering, and at low cost. If the bib tights only come with chamois then I need a half a dozen of them.
- Tom, Boston
June 25, 2010
In re. : Joe's web site, I'm gonna be cynical and venture the new job pays better! If you read Joe's first book you notice he's not exactly the sentimental type.
- Oliver , Carrboro
June 25, 2010
Does ayone know what happened to "6 years in a rain cape"? The site has not been updated in a while since Joe took the new job, and now CC has taken the link off.
- Fausto, NJ
June 22, 2010
I'm gonna guess that you've never owned or perhaps even ridden a set of Hi-end Bontrager wheels. I am lucky enough to currently own: Ksyrium SSC-SL Clinchers, 2x Reynolds Clinchers (both carbon DV and Aluminum Alta Race), Zipps: 303 clinchers, 404 tubulars, 900 disk 1080 front tub), Hed3 clinchers and American Classic 420 clinchers for track racing. Also, for CX: Neuvation C50 tubulars and Williams Cyclocross Tubulars, (I am a bit stunned myself, never having written them all out before. I need a 12 step program for wheels, because I have three other sets in mind right now that I feel I NEED. Wheelfetish?) But far and away my favorite set of all time are my 2007 vintage Bontrager Aelous 5.0 Carbon Clinchers. I have abused them mercilessly, slammed them into countless potholes, raced them wet and dry, from 20 deg to 100 deg, let them be packed and repacked in boxes and bike cases by less-than-careful bike shop employees for several trips to cycling camp, they've held up like iron, only needing truing once, after I crashed them hard at Bear Mountain by sticking my front wheel into someone's rear skewer. The rims are amazing Bontrager XXX Race Lite Carbon Clinchers, over which HED puts a flyweight 50mm carbon fairing (which has withstood countless strappings to my roof rack without the slightest wear), the hubs are DT, so are the spokes, you cannot buy better hubs than DT's. Get your hands on a set of these, ride them a few weeks, I promise you'll be so impressed you'll print a small follow-up comment in your blog saying how butter they are. One other item where Bontrager kills it: XXX Race Lite seatpost with side- one bolt mechanism. Truly a better mousetrap.
- Patrick, NYC
June 22, 2010
Bontrager drivetrain components too: Bontrager crappy cranks. The bicycle components themselves seem like an OK way to brand but poor Bontrager has to put his name on bar tape, folding baskets, sweatbands, fenders, ugh. I guess as long as Trek keeps sending checks, Keith is OK with it. Fisher used to be a premium brand back in the Front Suspension days (premium=more money for same product), but those days have been long gone.
I, too, need crotch protection and prefer my tights with no chamois.
- Dwight, Minneapolis
June 22, 2010
WHAT!!!! Two pages of comments and not a single reference to the photo of the 'women's bibs'?! what have we, the hardcore cycling crouwd, become? sad ... just sad ...
- Bill, Houston, TX
June 22, 2010
Love your articles! No Chamois allows you to ride tights more than once before washing. An extra layer in northern Wisconsin is usually welcome in early spring or late fall road rides. Keep up the great job!
- Dave, Minocqua, WI
June 22, 2010
Considering that most if not all winter tight manufacturers that are not Pearl Izumi refuse to windproof my crotch, the extra layer that shorts provide is necessary in sub-freezing temps.
- Jon, Philadelphia
June 22, 2010
""Custom geometry": A PRO phenomenon that died out ..." It's amazing how relatively fast this happened once the jello-mold plastic bikes took over. Not only for the PROs but also for the normally-proportioned fat-bodied posers desperate to somehow separate themselves from the unwashed masses. Now, everyone seems content to just ride the exact same frame popped out of the exact same jello mold. The drive for uniqueness via custom geometry has been replaced by the quest for "style points" gained by accessorizing these homogeneous frames with gee-whiz components and boutique wheelsets. Those kiddies suggesting an "undershirt" to combat the emery board effect must either have 0% body fat or have never ridden more than half a klick in the suffocating schvitz of Mom Nature's sauna bath.
- PawleeWalnutz, NYC
June 21, 2010
I've hung my Bontrager Race Lite over the fireplace after a long career as a race bike, then singlespeed. Sure, the girlfriend objected a bit, but I don't think we'll see anything like that again. Now I look at the Bontrager components on her road bike and wonder what went wrong.
- jason, wellington, new zealand
June 21, 2010
i had a dream that k. bontrager got out of his no-compete and started doing 21st century cyclocross that made ridley look like huffy. funny coincidence of this post? Still got one of his orig. mtn bikes made down in SC. The sooner trekCO kills it off, the better off i'll be selling out to some 90's curator.
- mrg, sf
June 21, 2010
It's pretty obvious you've never ridden a Fisher road bike or taken more than a cursory look at one. The Cronus is better than the Madone in my opinion and, yeah, I've spent time on both. My admiration for them is also based on the inclusion of fender mounts (on a carbon fiber race frame!) and clearance for 28mm tires. And they use the same frame (yes, same grade of carbon and all) on the $2,600 Cronus as the $6,000+ Cronus Ultimate.
I was prepared for Trek to just ship all the old LeMonds back to China for repaint and roll them out as Fishers. But they took the time to actually think about what a road bike should be, and the result is something that fits the way I - and a lot of people I know - ride. By the way, I own a Pegoretti too and love that - different bike, different character. And bib tights with chamois pads in them are about as useful as Sarah Palin in public office.
- Joe, Planet Reality
June 21, 2010
You are losing me on the Fisher critique, which also seems like some mighty big rocks for you to be throwing from your glass house. Not sure what was "inauthentic" about the road bike rollout. Let's see, Fisher leveraged the engineering and manufacturing power of Trek to concoct two totally novel road framesets, designed around actual practicality (fender mounts, clearance for bigger tires but still using short-reach calipers, reasonable geometry, etc.) and innovation (whatever the hell they are calling the wider-flanged hub and steering column). So, I get the bleeding-edge benefits of Trek's carbon skills (shattering forks notwithstanding!) paired with the kind of design intelligence I could only get with a custom builder before....and that is somehow "inauthentic"? Granted, Fisher seems like a douche with the clever hyperbole and salesmanship, but, uh, this is competitivecyclist lobbing the criticism, right?
Here is what seems inauthentic to me: how many bicycle makes have you guys gone through since you came online? And, how many times have you waxed poetic about the mystique, genius and whatever else of some manufacturer...only to have their bikes just go away some day? Then, there is the new line, with the mystique, genius and whatever else. Given that you yourselves are the ones often playing up the "authentic" bona fides of these various manufacturers, please give us a break with the unwarranted criticism of Fisher.
- Ben, Staunton, VA
June 21, 2010
My LBS raves about the Chronus every time I'm in there - is it an old Lemond or a decent bike? I considered a test ride . . . guess it will be on sale now, huh?
- Bryan, Peoria
June 21, 2010
w or w/o chamois does not matter as much as completely windproof in the front. And flexible. Why Assos delights in covering knees and parts of thighs but not the crown jewels is a source of neverending confusion. Combine that problem with black tight pictures on websites, and you have to guess what "strategic" wind protection implies. Here's another word for strategic: insufficient. Please comment on this aspect of wind protection areas on all tights descriptions on CC.
- Dobbin, Horse Country
June 21, 2010
Tights sans chamois is a must. I already have a drawer full of chamoised garments I wear underneath the tights. Also, two layers of tights are a must below 20 degF
- Karl, MPLS
June 21, 2010
Definitely prefer tights w/o chamois. Never had a pair of tights with chamois that fit that well and you don't have to wash the tights after every ride. Not surprised by the Trek move, but sad to see the demise of the Gary Fisher brand. The whole parent company/competing brand concept was a little strange. Like them or not, but a Dorel type situation probably works better because the companies are left autonomous, generally fill different market niches, and the parent company (Dorel) doesn't directly compete.
- JZ, Salt Lake City, Utah
June 21, 2010
The only losers in the demise of Fisher as a standalone brand are the shops that carried Fisher but not Trek. Still, I'd be surprised if any of those shops were so dependent on Fisher that they couldn't just swap in another respectable, mid-size MTB line with nice 29ers. Or Trek for that matter.
Anything with a chamois *must* be washed after after every ride, which is a pain if you live in an apartment without an in-unit washer/dryer. But a pair of chamois-less tights can go a few rides without washing. Plus, chamois-less tights are cheaper and I already own plenty of bib shorts with perfectly good chamois. So it's no contest for me. On the other hand, I'm sure there are plenty of Rapha-philes who don't have the same budget and laundry access constraints.
- Josh, Oakland, California
June 21, 2010
Rode with G Fisher once at the Wiss when Interbike used to be held in Philly. Dude was hi as a kite and couldnt ride to save his life. Hate the bs about him inventing mountain biking and will happily cheer the brand's dimise.
- Hung Low, Philly
June 21, 2010
Bib tights always Chamois-free you only wear them if leg warmers will not suffice. Also school boy error on a long humid hot ride, always wear a baselayer.
- Wade, Little Rock, AR
June 21, 2010
I hear ya' with the nipple thing! It never used to happen to me,but now I wear a base layer even on the hottest day's! I can't do the band-aid 's ..Sorry.
- Jim, Troy,NY
June 21, 2010
Proactive nipple chafing solution: band-aids applied before the ride. Momentary pain of their removal is infinitely preferable to discomfort of chafing.
- ralph, sf
June 21, 2010
Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, and Gary Fisher were all failing brands bought on the cheap. All had very serious issues. On top of that: Lemond's fit poorly for many riders, Bontrager Race Lights handled very strangely for most riders, Klein's were locked into very high prices and weird proprietary parts, and Gary Fisher's, well had Gary Fisher in charge. Bought out or bankrupt in two years. Trek kept those failing brand afloat longer than the market would have. BTW- Bontrager makes some very nice stuff, along with Specialized they clearly have put substantial assets into this area to good effect.
- Eric, Cville
June 21, 2010
Granted the creation of the Fisher road bike line might have been "inauthentic": take you're old, unpainted LeMond's and slap a new brand on 'em. However, the first of the "true" Fisher road bikes are a departure from both the old LeMonds and the current Treks and there seemed to be a genuine attempt at doing something innovative. Personally, I'm just happy that my LeMond warranty replacement happened at a point in history where I was able to get a bike with a non-Trek brand (this branding strategy might also explain why my mid/low-end LeMond Alpe d'Huez frame was replaced with a rather high-end Cronus frame - another reason for me to be happy.) What I wonder is how enthused Mr. Fisher will be when the Cronus frame-molds wear out and the Fisher Collection becomes just a collection of existing Trek's with different paint? (I would guess he'll be happy as long as the checks don't bounce.)
- RB, B'ham
June 21, 2010
Like others have gushed, bib tights w/o chamois are superb. If it is cold enough for bib tights then having the extra layer of the bib shorts is fine and usually wanted. The chamois integration with body on most bib tights w/ chamois leaves a lot to be desired. I like that chamois nice and snug against me, and I find bib tights w/ chamois more often than not compromise the relationship between my flesh and chamois. And finally the laundry factor - I can ride with clean shorts every day and wear the bib tights 3x before doing all the laundry at once. Not that I am some eco-hippie. Regarding bib strap friction, I always wear an undershirt of some form to avoid said issue but my climate is not a hot one. PS. I probably will yell at someone in my next bike race.
- EKH, YVR
June 21, 2010
Do you mean "yell" like berate, or "yell" like have a high volume conversation, or announce your presence to an oblivious racer you'd rather not crash into? If it's the former, I agree, but if it's the latter, what's the problem?
- Brian, Denver
June 21, 2010
Dude, I think you're (you guys? Who knows how many write this) a wierd, wonderful, and gifted writer, and though I pretty much hate you for your aloofness (in the sense of a Potemken Village). I will have to admit, I come back for your blog, and I've bought two or three things in the past based on my need to keep coming back because of your writing. Fair enough for me. For give me mine, as I don't have a spellchecker...
- elpataron, Saginaw
June 21, 2010
In my experience, the Assos chamois cream can be used for more than just chamois; either that or a little speed glide. Long distance plus water always makes chafing an issue - ask any triahtlete doing the half ironman or further or any marathone runner! Feel free to embrocate far, wide and often.
- DKA, Toronto
June 21, 2010
Put some tape or bandaids over your nipples the way that Greta Waitz used to do when she was slaying marathon fields. That'll stop the chafe.
- Geoff, Bermuda
June 21, 2010
Yeah bib tights or windproof bib tights no chamois in the Great White North here.
Easier for washing and warmth when it gets really cold. I can see the need for comfort in AK.
Plus who has the $$$ or 2 or more pairs of Assos high end windproof bib tights? Use just one pair for the winter season and wash only when needed. Lasts longer too.
- Bob , Great White North
June 21, 2010
I'd buy those Assos women's bibs and wear them (yes, the women's model) everyday if they were delivered by that model. Especially if she were wearing them to the delivery and had to take them off to give them to me! Assos knows how to make their ads sizzle, I'll give them that.
- mark, Salt Lake City
June 21, 2010
Bib tights without chamois are the way to go, both for laundry and fit reasons. Plus, then you can use your bib tights for xc skiing and not feel quite as weird.
I wasn't thrilled with the handling of the Fisher Ion I bought, and the removable fender eyelets turned out to be better in concept than in practice, but I'm still bummed to see Fisher go. It seemed like they were a part of Trek that had a little bit of leeway to experiment with stuff and do things that didn't have to get Lance's approval to be sold.
- c, Minneapolis
June 21, 2010
I've always preferred my winter tights without chamois. Why? It makes laundry less of a hassle if you only have one or two good tights and you live in an apartment without a washer. Wear your good summer shorts under the tights, wash those after every ride (naturally), and wash the winter tights after really wet salty rides or weekly, whenever they get some stink on 'em or they start looking like hell. Plus, I've never been all that impressed with the way winter tights with chamois fit. My Craft winter bibs with chamois don't feel as nice to spend hours on the nasty Chicago winter roads as does the Assos or Verge bibs I wear under some ratty Performance fleece tights that are full of holes and rips, held together with safety pins and silicone.
- Zach, Chicago
June 21, 2010
Why no chamois in the Rapha tights? I've always assumed that it was so you could wear them more than once before washing, whereas a chamois-equipped bibtight will need washing after every ride. You can keep rotating your usual bibs and just pull the tights on over the top, thus avoiding the need to own more than two sets of tights in order to get you through a cold week without doing laundry every other day.
No?
- J, Berkeley
June 21, 2010
Bib tights sans chamois- The only way to fly IMHO. I may ride two days in a row and have no problem wearing the same tights day in day out- but feel strongly that I should swap shorts out every ride...I am sure gross to some but that is what I get for not having a washing machine in the apartment...
I disagree about Fishers non 29er product line- Road bikes that can accomodate 28cc tires and rack eyelets wrapped up in a carbon chasis that is stiff sound prettys freaking good to me.
- fat chance, NY
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