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Comments - Statistics and Emotion: Our Final Dispatch on the 2009 Spring Classics
May 04, 2009
Dear Zach from SD: Butt Yank is actually far enough up state highway 64 that it is never considered part of the metropolitan Little Rock area. We're trying to build something in Little Rock, and then some small minded person from San Diego goes and lumps us in with Butt Yank!
The ToC is what it is. That's not to say it's not exciting, or great to have racing in your back yard, or what ever else. But it should never be confused with the heat of a pennant race, to mix sports metaphors.
The Tour of Missouri, on the other hand.... As that's in MY backyard, I will personally hunt down and stab anyone who so much as CONSIDERS that the ToM is less than the pinnacle of pro cycling.
For those bothered by the channelling of teenage-angst-to-excess (personally, it hits a sentimental sweet spot), particularly as it refers to idiots threatening to gore competitors with their stupid longhorn hats, need to shut up and go buy the first Squirrel Bait and Naked Raygun albums.
- Steven, Saint Louis
May 04, 2009
Also, on the Garm*n thing, I think the distaste is coming from the fact that they just don't seem as hardcore. Not that thats a bad thing, the image is good and I love VdV but to me, their is something infinitely more appealing in the Saxobank mentality of coming to races to make it hurt really bad and to just break people. Garm*n plays paintball at training camp and Saxobank plays with live ammunition. I think that sums it up.
- Doug, Atl
May 04, 2009
Gimme a break folks. Tour of California is awesome, so was Georgia (I'm from there.) but is it a real hardcore, true PRO Race?...Maybe kinda sorta, but until some serious Euro pros decide to contest Levi, it won't be. It's a spectacle and a great place for domestic U.S. Pros to get a shot at the big time, but it's not on an equal level to any of the short stage races that take place in the Euro spring time. Move the race to April, and then we'll see.
- Doug, Atl
May 04, 2009
Let's be clear, I'm the guy who gave this dude a hard time on the whole merckx thing. I still contend he was 100% in the wrong to edit my comments and he still should eat some crow and his response shows his lack of business acumen. I call bull cr@p, though. All these comments on ToC and how you spend 9k on CC and wont ever shop here again. I'm not buying it. Have you guys ever heard of "shop talk?" People in shops have down time, they're into cycling and they have opinions and opinions differ. You all act like what is said here is law. The author is just having some fun - his stats aren't REAL stats, you know that, right? As for ToC, it's a race in Feb and as such it's not a real race - picture a ven diagram - some races are real races, some aren't, but all races in February aren't real races. Sorry. The point - lay off and keep up the good work on the blog. It's one of the better ones out there.
- Tom, DC
May 04, 2009
For those of us who apparently haven't followed this long enough, could you, or one of your followers, please elaborate on WHY you have such a big problem with Garmin and Vaughters, that you constantly feel compelled to insult them individually and as a team, every chance you get?
Is referring to them as Garm*n (with an asterix) your way of saying that you think that they are nothing more than a footnote in Pro cycling?
As for the rest, usually good commentary and always well written, but you are starting to sound like some bitter old wannabe, akin to the old saying 'Those who can do and those who can't teach' (not my commentary on teachers by the way), or someone with a grudge for the industry. Lighten up, you've got a lot of interesting and pertinent insight that gets cheapened by the seeming lack of justification for the 'nasty' tone.
- Randy, Greensboro
May 03, 2009
I really enjoyed this post, but as usual, the comments are the most fun. It's a little like reading Style Man in Bicycling (the only actual commentary in that mag albeit tongue in cheek). The mixture of indignation, self righteousness and sarcasm is really apropos to PRO cycling. Now I think we can all agree on that!
- Steve, Miami
May 03, 2009
Frank, why don't you write something explaining why you disagree? I agree with the opinions stated above - but even if I didn't would think that it was a well written editorial about cycling. Help me understand your point of view.
- Adam, hamilton
May 03, 2009
Boy some of you guys are really touchy about YOUR big bike race. Does CC really care about being thought of as un-American? Probably not. Does CC care about losing you business? Possibility. I expect that they see the First Amendment as a more potent symbol of what is is the be an American, than waving the flag. Am I un-Australian because I think that the TDU is a joke race like a little staged Belgian Kermesse. Yes if you are flag waving Bogan that thinks Australia is the best place on the planet. No is you value discussion, rationality and you see the world as many shades of grey.
- peter, sydney
May 02, 2009
@Mathew from the People's Republic (read: some hipster doofus from Boulder): I understand what an opinion is. Cheers. Apparently you think all opinions are worthy of respect? Can you be serious?
- Frank, Montclair, NJ
May 02, 2009
I'm DONE. Last year I spent over $4500 at CC and the year before close to $9000 (with a bike purchase). You will never see another purchase from me or any of the dozen or so people I have referred to your site. I just don't get why you are so negative on real american cycling and people out to do the right thing. I would have thought in this economy that it wouldn't be good business to alienate customers.
- Mark, Los Angeles
May 01, 2009
@Frank: with respect, the author is expressing OPINION(S). You find that repellant? The fact that we _don't_ all see things the same way is a blessing, one that political correctness, etc, completely paves over. Thank the Heavens that we aren't all of the same mind, we don't all ride the same route, on the same bicycle, with the same kit, in the same direction, at the same time...you get the idea.
- Matthew, people's republic
May 01, 2009
Man, we get it. US cycling will never compare to the scope of Euro races. I understand that. I don't care if most of the peloton is training or not during the Tour of Cali. the point is they are all racing out her in my own backyard. like lance mentioned, perhaps they can change the calendar and move the toc later in the year.
It's the hubris that annoys me. You remind me of that cyclist who just got his new cervelo w/ lightweight wheels and he no longer waves to oncoming cyclist. get over it and move on
great site, great blogs! I love the content. it's the best cycling online store in the world
- bill, nor cal
May 01, 2009
I've spent my last dollar at CC. It's a decent shop, and I'll continue to read the website to inform my decisions on what to buy, etc., but whoever writes this blog just doesn't appreciate that he's alienating his customers by showing his bizarre and hateful ways. The four or five folks who have commented about this below is just the tip of the iceberg. This dude's got some issues. His blog could serve a great purpose in the cycling worls, but he chooses to be divisive and ugly. It's small and quite undignified behavior.
- Frank, Montclair, NJ
May 01, 2009
Why all the negativity about the negativity? This blog has come out and said something I’ve been thinking for years now; that most cycling journalism is rewritten press releases and soft ball questions.
This blog is great if only because it criticises where criticism is due, but man, go back and read some of the awesome praise it gives riders who ride with their heart on their sleeve and bury themselves in do or die moves regardless of whether they come away with the victory or not. If anything this is writing championing the kind of racing we all wish we saw more of, and doesn’t jump on the victory through TT’s that Garmin eke out just because they are an American team.
- Adam, Hamilton
April 30, 2009
ToC apologists: Get over it. It's a bush-league race. No biggie though. Lot's of people enjoy going to AA baseball, free concerts in the park, and stuff like that.
- PawleeWalnutz, NYC
April 30, 2009
No matter what your take, this is good writing. The author should start a cycling version of The Surfer's Journal.
- Joel, Raleigh
April 30, 2009
Wow! You're an ass ! Why trash the TOC? We're trying to build something in California and a small-minded person from Butt Yank, AR writes that crap! I've attended the last three TOC's. The intensity at Solvang and at the top of this year's Palomar Mountain stage was amazing. Go back and read what Levi or Floyd have to say about the climb at Palomar. Better yet -- come out to California and support American Cycling.
- Zach, San Diego
April 30, 2009
An amusing read as always. Keep it up!
- Mike, Reno
April 30, 2009
seriously - how is the negativity good for business. You've got a good thing going at CC. Don't ruin it by becoming an arrogant prick. If you have a legitimate reason for bashing Garmin, then explain it. You have some great insights and can be very entertaining. Craig - calm this guy down.
- Phil, Little Rock, AR
April 30, 2009
Little too much bashing on Garmin and ToC here for my tastes. It's the best we've got right now, I'd rather not hear people rip into it in a self-important, faux-euro blog tucked into the corner of a retail website.
- Sean, Chicago
April 30, 2009
you better watch out, the canadians will only be gettign stronger, the talent pool is very large
- afro, canada
April 30, 2009
I wish people would not post/advertise their blogs...It is in poor taste to crash a party so to only promote your own self interests.
Keep the good work up but don't bag on the Canucks- They have done really well considering the winters they suffer and the fact that they have a much smaller pool of population in which to pick from. Bauer, Gord Fraser, Brian Walton, Lynne Bessette, Mike Barry, Ryder and Meier have proven themselves and deserve repsect.
- Freedom Fries, NYC
April 30, 2009
Another fabulous post! Very thought-provoking. There are some things I might have done differently though. Rather than bore everyone here, you're welcome to take a look on my blog:
http://pavepavepave.blogspot.com/2009/04/spring-statiscal-analysis-response-to.html
Hope you enjoy! Thanks again for the inspiration.
- WSY, Phoenixville, PA
April 30, 2009
Don't think I will be buying much from this dude's company. I would not want to fuel the hate. Lighten up, Francis.
- Patrick, Chicago
April 30, 2009
There are a couple of important points you missed while bashing the ToC. One, while there were many sub-par riders, there was also some of the biggest names in the cycling world. Yes, it was more a training exercise for many of them than a race, but they did come. Second, at least we get to watch it. I love watching the racing, the emotions on the faces, the pain, and the joy. I would watch every second of the spring classics if I could, but all we get is a 30 minute clip from Versus on a couple of the classics, and that's about it. The ToC is extremely important to American cycling, and frankly, to Competitve Cyclist. You would be better served spending some time writing about what good the ToC has to offer, not to mention the race was no dream ride through the vineyards, the weather was horrible, and an old man of 37 managed to eliminate three quarters of the field in one day while riding for the teams GC hopeful. For me, the ToC was great. After a long winter, to finally see some racing, to see some of the biggest names in cycling, all inspired me to get out and ride more, which leads to needs, like new components, tires, kit, etc. You guys sell that stuff, don't you ?
- Ed , Franklin, KY
April 30, 2009
MVP of the pelotin: JVS... Yeah it's probably a good call, but at the same time I think he also deserves the award for Most stupid racing move of the spring. When he waited after narrowly avoiding the crash at Roubaix you had to ask what the #$%^ was he thinking!! As Pozzato rode away never to be seen again he waited with Hoste. Surely he would have been better to join Pozatto in chasing, which after that sweet skid he could have eaisly done. Then after Thor's crash JVS and Pozzato should have been able to catch Boonen making it a 3 way race instead of waiting with Hoste to roll in 4th and 5th. Sure it was honorable and a great display of looking after his team captain, but at the same time, the guy's lying in the ditch & it's Roubaix.... Sorry, but leave him there and start racing for yourself, you clearly deserve it.
- Andrew, Sydney
April 29, 2009
I don't think anyone is debating how exciting the ToC is. Having those teams and any large race in this country is a big deal, and great fun for many spectators. If I lived in California, I would certainly come out for it....but it certainly doesn't compare to most European races. This doesn't detract from it, or the fun and enjoyment any of us can have watching it. It is what it is.
- sleeper, Pittsburgh, PA
April 29, 2009
I think it was the great Homer Simpson that referred to Canada as "America Junior". After reading Ar's response, I think I know what he's getting at. Lighten up, Ar. I don't think that the reference to the Canadian champ jersey was a major dig against the Great White North. I could see getting upset if someone said Canadian hockey sucks, but Canada (like the US) isn't exactly a hotbed of potential pro cycling talent when compared to Italy, Belgium, and the like. I certainly don't take it so personally when someone busts on the US Soccer team.
- Wayne Gretzsky, LA Kings
April 29, 2009
Ar, I am Canadian you hoser. I think Svein Tuft is the single best thing about Garmin. This very blog has made an entry about how cool his right forearm tattoo is and how awesome his second at the Worlds TT was last year. I also think Ryder Hesjedal has a real shot at a race like L'Eroica. Steve Bauer, don't get me started: legend. That being said, the Tim Horton's kit circa 2003 was a diservice to Barry, and coincided time wise with the company's change from fresh baked donuts to frozen ones - the equivalent to when Colnago started prodcing the arte in the far East; a once glorious brand losing their credibility.
- Adam, Hamilton
April 29, 2009
On ToC - it's the baseball spring training of bike racing. Yea people are there, yea you can approach them, but it's February people, no one is taking it seriously.
You are so correct on Johan VS. The guy also gives hope to anyone around 6'3", cause he's in the tall club and come spring he stomps.
- Tom, DC
April 29, 2009
Why not work to make TofC better -- than just harsh on it? What about a TofNC? I love the traditions (and I do love the Hemingway references), but Pro cycling needs to grow rather than just remain stuck in tradition.
- Jay, Needham
April 29, 2009
thanks for hatin on canada you fuckers, christian meier ( canadas national champ) finished 11th in romandie today and hes a doemstique through and through. hes a worker who works hard and gets decent results. our previous national champ cam evans ( both him a nd christian were past tema amtes on symmetrics and from vancouver) won san dimas, beating sevilla and now he rides for OUCH and he won stages at the tour of mexico. dont talk trash and think you know everything, wearign the canadian champ jersey in europe would be a huge honor and the locals respct itm knowing we canadians liberated many countries the pro peleton rides in.
grow up you whinning douche bags, i will never ever purchase anythign from you company, your remarks and brash and disrepctful.
- Ar, canada
April 29, 2009
What's up with the last two comments? Jim, ride a Willier, they're amazing. Colnago overpriced its frames and still managed to not put up the money for a single pro team worth knowing (can anybody name a rider on Landbouwkredit off the top of their heads - no Sven Nys doesn't count).
James, the pro-tour jersey is undeniably ugly. It's the one reason not to win the Tour Down under with it's instant jump to the top of the stands. It's not a personal dig on Canada, but it kind of hurt me to see Micael Barry blazing across the line for a great 7th place finish at the Worlds with 'Tim Horton's' splashed all over his jersey (http://www.michaelbarry.ca/pages/photos_full/39.htm) they guy's North America's Van Summeren and deserves more resepct than being a billboard for donuts and coffee.
- Adam, Hamilton
April 29, 2009
"...and dismiss it as something akin to the Estonian or Canadian National Champion's jersey"
So i guess the American National Champion jersey is the only one in the peloton that matters, too bad yours is now a 3X doper.
- James, Hamilton Ontario
April 29, 2009
If you don't ditch Willier and take back Colnago You're as good as Slipstream..
- Jim, Troy,N.Y.
April 29, 2009
Take a deep breathe and get some of your perspective back. Your starting to sound like a euro snob. Dude, the Tour of California is about as good as it will get for US cycling. I've been to the Tour de France starting in the early 90's and for me to drive 15 miles and pretty much see the top cyclist in the world is unbelievable. Your writing about he sumo wrestlers is about as annoying as the act itself.
Also, you and Jonathan V over at Slipstream need to share a glass of wine and hug it out! Otherwise, spot on!
- Bill, Nor Cal
April 29, 2009
When every baseball fan not in Manhattan bashes the Yankees they maybe a bit jealous but in the cycling world, jealousy and Garmin do not really add up. I love me my Christian Vande Velde and I am sure they work hard. But since they are so short of victories or even a dash of heroic futility they concentrate on argyle, anti-doping etc. But anyway…my vote for statistics and emotion goes to Marianne Vos. She trains during training season and races during the race season (Track, Cross and Road). A lot of the PRO MEN out there should take notes.
- Luke , Chicago
April 29, 2009
Boy I hope that your stats engine is dynamic to take into account Rebbi's final ensnarement? As a card carrying member of the no-nationalism spectacle brigade I concur that yes Cadel is a twit, despite his well intentioned humanitarian leanings.
- peter, sydney
April 28, 2009
you guys sound a bit jealous of the garmin team, i know some guys on that team and they work HARD!
yea, ok they are a team filled with time traillists and climbers, so is astana and i dont hear you guys pissing on them for having a shitty classics season.
lay of them and open your eyes more, theyre doing it the right way in a sport full of wrong doers, show some respect.
- SM, canada
April 28, 2009
MVP of the Peloton?
Spring may go this year to your "Cuisinart", summer always goes to Mr Messermeister, Jens Voigt, he can slice, dice, frappé and liquify. Best of all he doesn't need to be asked, he enjoys it.
- David, Calgary
April 28, 2009
We all know old school riders like Sean Kelley and the Erik Zabel who raced a full season do not really exist anymore and maybe it is impossible. But one of the things I noticed this spring is that it is difficult to get the stars to even show up to one of the Monuments. Instead we get a team like Garmin who typifies the sport today. Rather than slug it out on the roads of Europe for the big races, the stars on these teams spend most of the time twittering about their training rides, blogging about their SRM data, all while they prepare for July. If they do race a minor spring stage race…it’s for “training”. I mean come on guys your target race (TDF), where you more than likely to miss the podium, is two months away! We know it’s hard, and you have a really nice place in Girona, and Lim’s cakes are delicious, but give us something besides the team time trial to look forward to. Thank goodness we have someone like Hincapie who rode three monuments and is going to ride the tour.
- Luke , Chicago
April 28, 2009
After watching the bits and pieces of Fleche Wallone and L-B-L that ones gets from Vs., I have come to the conclusion that Cadel Evans could fuck up a wet dream! That idiot couldn't think his way through a race to save himself! This spring just proved that his failures at the Tour were no fluke! He's a genuine douchebag!
- James, Portland, OR.
April 28, 2009
Last two posts have been spot on. This spring had a lot of great attacking. Milan-SR confirmed that Mark C. can go the long distances. The Quick Step double AGAIN! You know you wanted it but never dreamed it could happen. LBL, Andy and Frank got it right this year. The Rebel, how old is he again? Chavanel and Johan just kept digging and digging. The suffering was scarry to watch. The racing was old school pre raido, just ride as hard as you can and see who is left to limp in. For Ronde, PR and LBL to finish "alone in the picture", we were treated to a great spring.
- Fausto, NJ
April 28, 2009
Seriously, man you missed your calling, but I'm grateful you put the time in to write something interesting. This site is one of my go-to's nowadays because too much cycling "Journalism" is PR junk or fan-boy nonsense.
BTW you might be the the only guy out there who recognizes van Summeren's hard work, he really deserves more credit than he gets
Cheers
- Jules, Long Beach
April 28, 2009
Man you are reeeeeally hard on the Slipstream boys. I know they're one dimensional, and that JV is a douche-nozzle, but wow! How about some well deserved derision for AG2R or BBox; both long lived and well funded teams that combined to do less than jack shit this spring...
- Chris, Little Rock
April 28, 2009
Nice post.
- georges, NYC
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