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Comments - Post Tour of California re-cap
March 14, 2009
Lance DID test positive during the TdF. He got a post-dated doctor's note to explain it. Supposedly the steroid was for topical anti-saddle sore ointment. If you believe that, you also believe his diatribes in his first book about how he was going to put his kids first, unlike his SOB dad.
IMO, Lance doped for the first several years of his career. I believe he figured out after two blow outs in the Tour that he didn't need dope to win. Did his teammates who were so instrumental in his victories dope? The Actovegin bags found by German journalists one year are indicative of the team mindset.
That said: those of us who raced Lance back in his junior years thought he would win everything, I have no doubt that he has the physiology and mindset to do so clean.
Why am I down on Lance? He is a jerk. I have seen it first hand. Great champions don't have to be a-holes, and his definitely is.
- Greg, Little Rock
March 10, 2009
He never tested positive for anything despite being the most tested athlete in cycling or any other sport. Therefore didn't happen. He is a great draw to the sport and is still getting people interested in and involved in cycling. Not to mention cancer awareness. What can be bad about this?
See my letter to the editor in Procycling with Lance on the cover. I think I said all that needs to be said there. You know, maybe a little controversy is a plus now that I think about it. Anyway I enjoy watching his beautiful way of riding a bike.
- Steve , Tucson, Arizona
March 03, 2009
For all of you who are Lance-Haters read this article in Bicycling Magazine by Bill Strickland. After you read it, do you still feel Lance is only coming back for himself? Its not about the person, its about what the person represents. Why don't you relax and enjoy the ride because many years from now you can say you actually saw one of the greatest. http://sittingin.bicycling.com/2009/02/come-back-forev.html
Thanks and LiveStrong
- Doug, Raleigh, NC
March 03, 2009
Not a hater here, just sick of hearing about him and hate the way he dictates races he wants to win. Though not solely his style, he perfected it and made the racing bland.
- Brian, Newtown, Pa
March 02, 2009
Here's the difference between a guy like David Millar and Lance Armstrong. One cheated and came clean about it; the other cheated and maintained his innocence. I don't respect cheaters, and you make valid points that back in 1999 everyone cheated, but many (Barne Riis) have confessed, and Armstrong should to. The guy lies about this on a daily basis, and it's mildly disgusting to me.
- Joey, SF, CA.
March 02, 2009
Re Haut Var, there has only been 874 views total of teh clip, and this is real, riders killing themselves, cycling. I guess there just isn't an audience for small-Euro-sans-Lance races in the US. Note the success of Garmin at K-B-K this weekend, Duijn managed 18th, and Maskaant 58th, but Friedman and Farrar were 101 and 102. That's only four finishers. The results from Het Volk were similar. As cool as a TTT is to watch, having one mass start victory this year would be a better indicator that the team is the real deal they keep presenting themselves as than a TT win in each grand Tour.
- Adam, Hamilton
March 01, 2009
I believe what is most amazing to me is that NO ONE in all of these comments have mentioned a WORD about the deciding stage of Tour du Haut Var in France - link provided in the original note. Listen - I take Lance for what he is - and I'm ok with what he is. Anyone who wins the Tour de France 7 times - doping or not - has to be special... BUT the deciding stage of Tour du Haut Var in France - OH MY GOD - what a great video clip. I found my quads filling with blood - could feel the burn - and watching this - you realize how one can be BROKEN mentally by an ATTACK. The strongest rider did indeed win that stage - if you have not watched it (go to 6:30) - you MUST see it...
- Eric, Burke, Virginia
March 01, 2009
So anyone who questions the Lance Myth is a "Hater"? You write, "Everyone who rode the tour in 99 used EPO, a fact nobody disputes"
Many people do dispute this and attack anyone that dares question the purity of Armstrong. Can you not see the difference between a rider that admits to doping and works to help make the sport better and one that lies for years and invents crazy stories of French conspiracy theories?
- Bruce, San Diego
February 27, 2009
This is starting to feel to me like I'm reading a weekly Maynard Hershon column. The economy is in the pits, my bonus this year is 5% of what it was last year, and I won't be buying that S1 that I thought I was going to...BUT LIFE IS STILL GOOD. Who cares about Lance when I can get out and ride my bike all weekend? Winter is ending, it's almost March now and the Spring Classics will be soon upon us.
- Phil, Walnut Creek
February 27, 2009
I agree with you Fausto, Jens Voigt is the person to cheer for.
Jomo, NJ
- Jomo, Maplewood,NJ
February 27, 2009
The whole point is that if everyone was on dope then, he included, just admit it and move on. It is not about penance or punishment, just the truth is what we want. I just can't stand the hypocracy, the denials, the threats to those that speak out and dare break the code of silence. Some of us "haters" just think it is bad for the sport, your industry and his foundation if he has been lying the whole time. For the average PRO that has a career, makes their money and retires back to their home town to be the top dog in their small town, fine. But to stand on the world stage, role model, make millions and raise millions is different; morality, ethics and truth come into it when you charge for your speaches. Would you give money to the smoker raising money for Cancer? Would you go back to the TOC with your kids and stand in the rain if the biggest star in the sport turned out to be the biggest cheat and liar? I am not jealous, just don't want to be preached to by Millar, JV, Lance or any of them. Just clean up the sport so it doesn't look like pro wrestling to people. I will still stand on the side of the road to watch the race go by even if they are clean and riding 2 mph slower up the mountain. They will still be suffering and some will still be better than others. Drugs don't make it more exciting. You miss the point, most of us are not looking for someone like Lance to hate, we are looking for someone we can trust to be clean to love, respect, admire, cheer for.
- Fausto, NJ
February 26, 2009
Good post, but what's up with the defensive Lance stance?!? It's perfectly logical and even understandable to be an informed and mature cycling fan and not care for Lance. Also, and I hate to say it - no bike retailer should ever comment on people not liking Lance, cause the guy is responsible for bringing a bunch of people with massive disposable income into cycling and given some of the price points in the industry and on your site - there is cause to be biased. Come on, how many products, aside from dope, are actually really performance enhancing?
- Patrick, DC
February 26, 2009
WRT the domestic riders, just because they did not show in the top-5 very often does not mean they are not competitive. Tom Zirbel's 7th place in the Solvang TT is probably worth mention alongside Sutherland's finish on stage 7. Ditto OUCH's Cameron Evans, who rode in two long breaks and looked very strong (and took heat from Jelly Belly's Matt Crane on his missingsaddle blog for his tactics). Finally, Jeff Louder also was frequently on the attack and got very close to the line on one stage. The only team to be truly invisible was Colavita, but anyone could have seen that coming. Kelly Benefits has a much stronger team for stage racing and should have had the invite instead of Colavita.
Besides, one can still argue that the reason domestic riders are not on par with the Euro-dogs is due to "preparation". And even if one does not think it is preparation a la syringe, the Pro Tour teams are truly a level above the domestic teams in terms of money and prep. Most PT teams have multiple training camps in the off-season now, compared to the domestic teams who have a quick get-together in January and then hit the races. Not to mention the level of care given to PT riders in terms of physiotherapists, physiologists, aerospace engineers, doctors, chiropractors, sports psychologists, etc, etc. The difference between domestic is there no doubt, but in no way should it marginalize the efforts of the domestic teams and riders.
Lance? The comeback does not bother me, just another guy racing his bike out there. I never cheered for him much before his retirement, and probably won't cheer much for him in his comeback.
- Eric, White Rock, BC
February 26, 2009
Speaking of future cycling stars... The Northern California High School Mountain Bike Racing League is starting is 9th season on Sunday. There will be between 400 and 500 high school kids in NorCal racing mountain bikes in Monterey, CA. The League has already produced some great riders (a couple on Garmin; one rider went to Junior World's last year) and continues to grow by leaps and bounds. This is the first year of the expansion into Southern California. Good things.
- Tyler, Oakland, CA
February 26, 2009
Good post, but what's up with the defensive Lance stance?!? It's perfectly logical and even understandable to be an informed and mature cycling fan and not care for Lance. Also, and I hate to say it - no bike retailer should ever comment on people not liking Lance, cause the guy is responsible for bringing a bunch of people with massive disposable income into cycling and given some of the price points in the industry and on your site - there is cause to be biased. Come on, how many products, aside from dope, are actually really performance enhancing?
- Patrick, DC
February 26, 2009
SC, i agree with wanting someone like Vino back. doping aside, it was great watching him ride in 07
- s, shicawgo
February 26, 2009
The Amgen Tour Tracker finally hit its stride this year. The previous versions weren't that great, but the technology has matured and it was by far way better than previous iterations.
- Todd, San Jose
February 26, 2009
Nice post! Looks like you've opened up a can of worms here! I love reading this stuff because it's nice to know that there are others out there who feel the same. I get so tired of seeing "No EPO" crap written on the road, and people who wear "Doper's Suck" shirts. It's not that I agree with blood doping or cheating...I just get tired of it being the focus of bike racing. ALSO....finally an answer to cycling.tv! I totally agree that someone needs to create a site like the Tour Tracker that we fans can watch daily! The Tour Tracker was GREAT during the AToC!
Speaking of the AToC...was I the only one who thought that it was a little on the boring side? I'm pretty sure I think that anyway....with all of the great spin the PR people seem to be giving the race, it's hard for me to remember accurately! Lastly....Vino, please come back. I miss your super-aggressive I'll-attack-you-on-a-climb-or-beat-you-in-a-sprint riding! I don't care if you doped or not. I need some excitement in my life.
- SC, Tennessee
February 26, 2009
nice comments!
lance haters are only slightly more annoying than lance supporters. the typical lance supporter does not view lance as a steely eyed calculating pro cyclist, but rather as a drug-free captain america-peter pan gay love child. professional cycling is not a healthy lifestyle. everyone from directors, to dr. ferraris, to soigneurs and mechanics are there for one reason only, to make the pro bike racer as comfortable as possible and prepared to do his job. the cyclists who do not have this support system, or have an inadequate or incompetent one are the people who lose, get caught doping or otherwise fail. part of lance's success comes about through surrounding himself with the right people. millar is an appalling idiot because he snitched on himself, snitched on his sport and seeks to profit off of his own lack of moral charachter. armstrong showed his true colors when he chased down simeoni. the sport is a spectacle that has nothing to do with objective reality- and it has its own boundaries....they're changing but somethings are always going to stay the same. pro cycling is a lifestyle that demands a callous vigor and a certain degree of myopic moral aloofness. i don't know if we'll ever see neutral support cars skidding out to try to keep up with riders going up a mountain again, but rest assured the best guys are always going to be killing themselves and their bodies to win.
- c, boston
February 26, 2009
I am not seeing any pics of riders on a P4 or a detailed reniew. What's up?
- Pat, Miami
February 25, 2009
Doping and cycling are like penis and vagina. They belong together. Thick blood makes the sport exciting. Look at the way Pantani used to attack! how exciting the riders of the 90's were...how boring the riders of today are...Levi Leipheimerr???? come on. This years ATOC was like drinking Nyquil on an empty stomach. Bring back the Cobra and Vino...then us real cycling fans will have something to watch.
- Giovani , 1234
February 25, 2009
Wow your first blog that I disagree with! My dislike of LA has nothing to do with doping. In reality if the UCI said tomorrow that everyone that wanted to take performance enhancer could I wouldn't care. For me cycling is about the spectacle, not a spectacle off outrageous scores but one where balance is fairly evenly tilted. I have not moral agenda in regard doping. Some of us have no time for LA because he is an hypocritical arrogant SOB that thinks that he is bigger then the institution that created and feed him. He has shown little regard for his fellow competitors (LA's bile directed towards Simeone was just plain repressible). LA is also a very sore loser. Just look at his incredulous historical revisionism in response to his lose to Ulrich in that famous tour TT (Dehydration) . LA is the returned godfather of cycling's omerta. Yes there is not pure institution/event/or person in the world, but pro cycling's stench has nothing do with drugs. It is, its lack of transparency, its inability to progress and its bald faced lying. This doesn't mean that it is further down the pathway than other sports, yet it deserves no pat on the back.
- peter, sydney
February 25, 2009
Hear, hear.
We cannot underestimate the impact that the Amgen tour had on a future generation of cyclists. I'm of the Lemond school - as a kid he was the one in Winning magazine every month. I only wish that I had been able to SEE a race with people of his caliber when I was 13. I hope that people outside this sport have taken note of the fan turnout for the tour and see the potential!
- eric , cincinnati
February 25, 2009
hatred is always from fear at a deeper level........those who chose to hate him fear something deeper within themselves that he or his image provokes......so to the haters stop being such a chicken shit about your own inadequacies and taking it out on him.......lets deal with a few claims:
arrogant - no super elite champion will get there without tremendous confidence, which is at some level probably a little arrogant, so get over it
his foundation - it is a collection of people who do really mean well for cancer patients, and can be a mechanism of support for those in a justifiably terrifying situation, you really are a total piece of shit if you can't find some good in that, his return to cycling has many indicators it is really more for cancer than himself
doping - maybe he did maybe he didn't, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty, i like it that way for multiple reasons.......so unless you have some proof shut the f%^& up......
epo really only makes a significant difference at altitude, at sea level the difference is much smaller, and epo alone won't get you a tour win, you do really have to have everything else, and apparently he did.....
many people are inspired by his story and it gives them much needed hope, and no matter what you think of him that is a good thing......the very fact that we are talking about him and his foundation is evidence that proves his return to cycling atleast has more people talking about cancer, and getting people talking about it is the first step in making policy and legislative changes.....
- lancelover, nomadic
February 25, 2009
"What is Lance's way to penance?" Lookit, the guy has lots of Karma in the bank even if he was doped to the gills. You cannot fart off the contributions he has made to cancer awareness, the lives he has touched, or the massive funds that his foundation have generated. You racing fan-boy dorks need to quit fondling the arms on your $900 cranksets and get some friggin' perspective. So the guy ain't perfect, BFD. I'll take a genuine SOB over a media-created slickster like A-Fraud 8 days a week. Lance is beyond than all this doping horse-shit and he's bigger than all the rest of pro cycling. That's why the haters hate. Get over it.
- PawleeWalnutz, NYC
February 25, 2009
I'm no Lance hater. I just wish he'd 'fess up to his doping. Since "everyone who raced the Tour de France in 1999 was on EPO," it would seem he has some 'splainin' to do. Not that I blame him for finally joining the party. With second tier pros flying up hills in the big ring in March, you had to join them because you couldn't beat them. No, what gets me is the sanctimonious aire and unbridled ego. After reading the Walsh book, and realizing that Frankie, Betsy, and Emma certainly had no axe to grind, and considering the circumstantial evidence against him, it's clear that LA simply isn't man enough to admit to his use of performance enhancing drugs. At least David Millar came clean, albeit after the ampoules were found sitting on his mantlepiece. A not so veiled desire to be found out, perhaps? Even Riis finally confessed, years later of course. Lance is simply too much of a coward to man up to his past transgressions, so he takes a page from the best defense is a good offense school of thought and runs with it. Hence his attacks on Kimmage, LeMond, and anyone who has the temerity to challenge him. Hubris is a bitch.
- Bud, Elkins Park, PA
February 25, 2009
I'll offer a different perspective to all of the Lance haters. Do you like going to this website or to your LBS to check out the latest 15lb carbon road bike? Do you like the fact that those 15lb bikes are every bit as durable as the "superlight" 18.5lb bikes that we drooled over in 1998? If you answered yes to either of these questions, thank Lance. Road bike technology was creeping along at a snail's pace before he won the Tour, and his popularity rejuvenated the bike industry. Anyone who has worked in the bike business in the last ten years knows that Lance was at least part of the reason you had job, whether or not you sold Trek bikes. Maybe he's a prick. Maybe he doped. Maybe he's a shitty father and a womanizer. I don't know any of those things for certain, but I know he has raised millions of dollars for cancer research and allowed hundreds (if not thousands) of bike shop employees to actually make a living at the job they love. There are plenty of dopers out there, both suspected and confirmed, that have never raised a nickel for charity or done anything for bicycle development. Why waste so much energy hating someone who, while far from perfect, has done a lot of good?
- Jason, Jonesboro, AR
February 25, 2009
To fake your IP go to any yahoo page outside of the US. I managed to give myself a .uk address by mistake while I was checking my fantasy Preimier football team. I would imagine you can get any country IP address by going to that yahoo page and then signing up for email!
- James, Portland, OR
February 25, 2009
The difference between cyclingfans.com and cycling.tv? cyclingfans didn't ding my credit card for a subscription renewal 6 months after I gave up trying to get signed in after jumptv took over.
Even my non-cycling wife follows Lance's twitter, which I'm sure makes the haters hate even more. He's the alpha dog.
- Scott, Conway
February 25, 2009
Boooooo! Hisss! Spilling the beans on cyclingfans.com before the Giro? Those feeds are hard enough to keep going without hundreds more people trying to use them. Even though the RaiSport feed is only 2" wide, it manages to broadcast the best racing anywhere on the planet.
- Joe, Portland
February 25, 2009
It isn't LA they hate, because they aren't hating the man who is Lance, so much as who he has become. More specifically, what he has become since winning 7+ tours and the fame that followed. Let's face it, the dude is a celebrity, he's a Corporate Machine who can visit with the President of Mexico in the morning then be home to train in Texas by noon or fly to Spain that evening and visit his "summer home." Would he still be the same (or be hated "jihad style") if the 7 first place finishes in the TDF were instead a smattering of seconds or thirds and maybe a single first place? I have no beef with any of them (Millar and the like), admitted cheaters or not. But I understand the disdain for the attitude coming from LA.
Besides, if this thing was really about "cancer," wouldn't his time be better spent 100% focused on working with the people who could directly combat that horrible disease head on rather than spending all that time training and racing? How many months out of the year will the racing season really consume? How many questions from the reporters are serious cancer issues? I would suspect that most of the haters can't stand the message being shoved down their throats by the cancer campaign. All he had to do was come out and say "I came here to win, to ride everyone of these guys into the ground, and I'm going to do it just because I think Ican."
- J, NLR
February 25, 2009
I've usually found that the Lance haters are disaffected former racers who are disappointed in their own shortcomings or people with only a limited experience with the sport. And each and every one seems to be ignorant (or just ignore) Lance's career as a professional triathlete when, as a 16-17 year old, he would routinely beat 20-30 year old guys. And what was it that happened in Oslo in '92? Oh yeah! Armstrong became one of the youngest professional World Champions ever.
Yep, Lance is kind of a prick sometimes, but so is almost everyone who is that dedicated to - and that good at - their job.
- Chris, Little Rock, AR
February 25, 2009
Penance? For what? Being a doper? I don't give a shit about that. What he needs isn't penance. He just needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and have his ass kicked, good and hard, by one of his redneck Texan neighbors. Why?
Because he's just an old-school Mafia-style thug, who thinks he can get away with whatever he wants. When all he is is just an ugly, skinny idiot who can ride his bike really fast. Oh, and I guess he runs a cancer charity. Bip whoop. Lots of people run lots of charities. His is special because... why?
And you stand up for him by comparing him to America fighting the War On Terror!!! Wtf?
Yeah, poor besieged, oppressed Lance. How on earth does he make it through the day? With so much hate directed his way...
- free to hate whoever I want, wherever I want
February 25, 2009
OMT. I occasionally forget that I'm not the only one with my hat set for JV and Garm*n. I find it laughable (and confounding) that JV comes off the way he does. Innocence by omission. Superiority through differentiation. Seems be working for him, anyway. / At the same time, I have no problem with DM. He did his time. / In fact, I go as far as to preemptively extend sympathy for the true innocents on TG, all of whom will suffer _heavily_ when/if somebody on that team is legitimately nailed. Talk about bringing the hate: JV will probably self-combust from all the hostility directed at him. But then, they're squeaky clean, so there's no point in even talking about it.
- matthew, boulder
February 25, 2009
Not to come off as too harsh, but I find it a bit ironic that you recommend cyclingfans in place of cyclingtv. Next to cyclingtv, cyclingfans has to be the worst cycling site in terms of usability on the entire Internet. Perhaps even the galaxy.
- Matthew, boulder
February 25, 2009
My dislike of Armstrong has much more to do with the fact that I think he's a complete asshole.
Joe Papp is a different story. He (and other US-based pros who dope) are total and complete losers. I compete against these cocksuckers during the season and I constantly wonder which of them are juiced. It comes down to these idiots getting pharmed up so they can beat guys like me, 30-somethings with full time jobs and families. But it's even worse for the young up-and-comers who get the idea that to be competetive you need to cheat.
So yeah, I reserve a shitload of bile for dick-smacks like Papp, Leogrande, and other low-level pros who dope to beat up on 9-to-5ers.
- AH, Indy
February 25, 2009
Armstrong is an arrogant bully
- Mike, Geneva, Switzerland
February 25, 2009
I agree that the SRAM Rival Crankset is pro quality and an especially good option for taller riders seeking a stiff 180mm crankset for TT, hilly courses, or simply because the length fits better. I believe it has been demonstrated to be the stiffest available crankset and one of the very few that are available in 180mm in both standard and compact, which makes it the best alternative for a rider who wants a 180mm compact for a DA7800, Campagnolo or SRAM Red equipped bike. I am curious to know why CC fails to carry a full size range of this quality component and misrepresents the product by claiming a weight that is over 80 grams heavier than the cranks really are? It seems odd to both highlight the worthiness of a component while simultaneously undermining the component within the retail side of your business. Maybe you can proof read your text for the 2009 crankset and update it for both size range and weight for the OCT version.
- Greg, SF
February 25, 2009
I, too, found the tour tracker a welcome relief from the Vs. coverage.
- Robert, Madison, WI
February 25, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxtxQQLkJ0
- not a hater, fanville
February 25, 2009
I'm sure CC is a great place to buy bikes and stuff, although not great for us Canadians right now. But, it now seems CC is becoming the best bicycle blog-rant site on the internet. You already had the best bike porn.
- Lawrence, Toronto
February 25, 2009
Off topic, but it would be amazing if you guy's put together a news post filtering out the best online cycling content.
Cycling blogs/ podcasts/ pro blogs/ team sites/ etc.
Their is a ton of filler out their and I'd enjoy reading what you guy's think is best.
- Scott, Los Angeles
February 25, 2009
"Does anyone know how to falsify an IP address for a single browsing session, in other words mask my US IP address and instead make it look Belgian or Italian for a day?"
Google search for "open proxy list" and you'll find there are Italian servers out there you can send your packets through. Search on how to setup a proxy and the downsides (there is a security issue with trusting your packets to an open server on the other side of the planet so don't do anything silly like check your email without a SSL connection). It's pretty easy on a mac.
- Matt, Portland
February 25, 2009
For the sake of brevity I will attempt to sum up my rational for Lance-hating with a baseball metaphor: Why root for A-Rod when Jose Reyas is on the field? Doping has nothing to do with it (they all are/were/will be) and public persona has nothing to do with it. I'd just rather see the attention lavished on someone who is maybe not the greatest champion, but is simply fun to watch, plays the competition at hand, and plays the sport the way I always wanted to see the sport played.
- J, Brooklyn, NY
February 25, 2009
+1. Thank you.
- Leonard, Santa Barbara
February 25, 2009
I'll take the bait. I wouldn't quite call myself a Lance hater, but I do find him incredibly disingenuous. He has spent years now shouting down & intimidating anybody who dares suggest that he doped. That's my issue. He sues Frankie Andreu's wife because she testifies against him when she's subpoenaed? That's over the line. I wouldn't be a hater if he said just what you say above, "Everybody in that tour was doping (for that matter, most of them probably are now)." Until there's a reliable method for detecting autologous blood transfusions, it's all sort of a ruse anyway, isn't it? The only time we find out who's doing it is when Puerto gets busted open again, or somebody screws up & grabs a teammate's blood bag by accident (Tyler, Vino, Kash, who else?). I'll agree with you that most of the Garmin worship is overstated, though I do think your personal relationships have more than a bit to do with your take on things. The one bit of it that sticks, for me anyway, is Vaughters' claim that he just doesn't want to see another generation of riders grow up thinking they have to make the doping bargain or go home. That's what's so appealing to most of us who do root for those guys. It's not that we think they're saints, it's that their message is, as you say above, well packaged. Obama proved last fall that a well packaged message makes a huge difference in the American media. I think Garmin is proving the same thing.
And that brings me back around to Lance. I think that his behavior in regard to doping allegations ruins the Livestrong/LAF packaging. When you see this guy go ape every time he's questioned, it causes some cognitive dissonance with the anti-cancer crusader mask he's trying to put on. I do believe in what he's doing, I just have a hard time rooting for him to win, though you're right about his importance to the sport in this country, he's the Tiger Woods of cycling, for better or worse.
- Doug, Madison, WI
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