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Urban Legends: The S3 and Campy 11

The power of the internet never stops amazing us. Combine a thread about the new Cervélo S3 on the influential Weight Weenies forum with one misinterpreted reply by Cervélo to a consumer and you end up with the hottest rumor on the web since Biggie killed Tupac: Word on the web is that the S3 isn't compatible with Super Record 11.

Is it true? No, it is not true. The purpose of this missive is simple and clear: To clear the air and to explain how and why the Cervélo S3 is indisputably compatible with all Campagnolo 11-speed componentry.

The thrust of the Weight Weenies thread is this: A potential Cervélo S3 customer heard of troubles related to the installation of a Campagnolo Super Record 11-speed crankset on an S3 frame. Apparently the 39t chainring can come close to the outside of the right chainstay. He was concerned that, under flex, the chainring would rub.

Ask any experienced bike mechanic if they've seen this issue before, and they'll tell you "of course." Regardless of frame brand. Regardless of component manufacturer. Regardless of 9, 10, or 11 speeds. It happens sometimes. And it's an easier fix than patching an inner tube. It's not a 'rig' job -- it's simply good bike mechanicking.

For starters, install your Campy 11 BB according to Campy specs, then insert your left crankarm. Feel that springiness as you push the crankarm against the BB? It's there by design, and it's caused by the wavy washer that sits between the outside of the non-driveside BB cup and the inside of the bearing on the left crankarm. The main purpose of the wavy washer is that it allows the bottom bracket to work within a small range of bottom bracket width variability. According to Campy literature, their Ultra Torque crank/BB will work within a 1.6mm range. For Italian bottom brackets, that range is from 69.2mm - 70.8mm, and for English bottom brackets the range is from 67.2mm - 68.8mm.

Install your right crankarm and torque the fixing bolt to spec. Is the small chainring closer than you'd like to the outside of the right chainstay? If so, then do what we've done for time immemorial: Remove the crankarm and right BB cup, place a spacer behind it, then reinstall it in the frame. The key is this: The size of the spacer can't be so thick that it puts the total bottom bracket shell/spacer width beyond the factory specification. An easy <1.0mm spacer to find around a bike shop is the one that comes for the back side of Shimano cassettes. Once you face the S3 BB shell, this 1mm spacer should put you at right around 68.8mm. And if you want to play it safe, you can buy a Wheels Manufacturing 0.7mm alloy BB spacer made for this very purpose (QBP # CR1237. It costs less than a cup of coffee).

Given the cushion of the non-driveside wavy washer plus the fully-locked-together Hirth Joint design of a Campagnolo Ultra-Torque crankset, you have a perfectly operational unit with no additional drag to the BB or imperfection in any way, shape, or form. Our modification is barely worth mentioning because it's one that bike shops have been doing to all varieties of bikes and bottom brackets forever. No product can be mass produced without some minor variability. That's why good bike mechanics exist. Never has there been such a shitstorm about something so easy to resolve.


March 27, 2009

Dan from Auckalnd hit it on the head. After speaking with product developers at a recent Cervelo seminar, the reality is that two of the "big three" offered up all of the technical specifications on their components to be integrated into the design of the S3. Campy was the only one who didn't provide the information, hence the problems with the cranks and Fulcrum wheels. I can assure you that Cervelo bikes are engineered to the highest standards.
- Jack, Austin, TX

January 23, 2009

Can you clear up the myths about the many common wheelsets not fitting the S3? Perhaps a "whats new" article with what wheels do and do not fit, and why they will not work. Cervelo's site lists a few that will fit but it also states "depending on rider weight and riding style" but with no specifics. The bottom bracket/spacer seems easy enough, are wheels as easy to fix?
- Tim, SEA

January 15, 2009

Yes, such a simple fix... and I doubt anyone at Cervelo even knew about it. Why would Cervelo tell the customer some campagnolo cranks were "incompatible"? Experience IS important... too bad so many Cervelo employees doesn't have any.
- Concerned, Canadian

January 13, 2009

"The S3’s design is based on the SLC, a frame which had its final design established in late 2004. That was a couple of years before Campy developed the Ultra Torque design. The clearance between the aero carbon bikes (P2, P3, P4, SLC, SLC-SL, S2, S3) and the Campy Ultra Torque cranks are all the same." (from Chris @cervelo on WW) Cervelo should have thought about redesigning this when Ultra Torque was introduced in 2006. As other people have said a design that is 5 years old is a little odd
- Sean, Avon/Ithaca, NY

January 13, 2009

Component manufacturers are not always forthcoming with specs for Bike Makers, so in the real world Bike co's have to run with what they have, Sometimes making the fastest frame they can will exclude certain component options , who is really to blame ?
- Dan, Auckland

January 13, 2009

@ Craig, Toronto It's akin to including a beer can with every frame so you can cut your own shim stock to make a seatpost fit. This is exactly what I had to do to my 2007 Cervelo Soloist Team to get the carbon fiber post to stop sliding down, even with FSA antislip resin smeared all over the post.
- Douglas, San Diego

January 13, 2009

Proud R3-SL owner. But, it does make me wonder how much frame builders actually pay attention to pairing their works of art with actual components, not just drive-trains. I saw this same issue on my buddy's Willier with Shimano DurAce. In the "other" world I live in, we would blaim it on poor interoperability testing. Come to think of it though, I have not witnessed the perfect computer either. So the 'patches' become inevitable. Good luck, use the patch!
- Kris, Alamo, CA

January 13, 2009

Do you think you should make mention about wheel incompatibility on your S3 page, for consumers who may be considering using wheels they already own, but not suitable for the bike ?
- lawrence, toronto

January 13, 2009

Cervelo is made in China, not Taiwan.Besides, that last comment is off by a mile. Do you think that USA can make a better product?
- Horace, Dallas

January 13, 2009

"That's why good bike mechanics exist. Never has there been such a shitstorm about something so easy to resolve. " Probably better to have a good desginer that a good mechanic.
- Rob Dayton, Charlotte,NC

January 13, 2009

Just to be clear, does the rumor accurately extend to Campy wheels as well?
- Brian, Arkansas

January 13, 2009

Campy snobs really need to take trip to Japan and get over themselves. The Campy design is a comprimise.
- Peter, Sydney

January 13, 2009

" is the one that comes for the back side of Shimano cassettes"....on an otherwise completge Campy bike!!!! Sacrilege....how can you even think of it! "Wheels Manufacturing 0.7mm alloy BB spacer" sounds like a far more sensible solution.
- Randolph, Sydney, Australia

January 13, 2009

Oh yeah, but when designing a frame and knowing there are really three primary manufacturers of bicycle components, Campagnolo being one of them, and knowing how easy it is to make the tolerances of a bike accept a pretty standard crankset without a spacer, one wonders how a company with more engineers on staff than bike models could screw such a simple thing up. Sure, the "fix" might be an easy one but the best fix is good frame design that requires no fix at all. If it was some obscure aftermarket crank that was shaving every last gram in a war to be the lightest then maybe I'd forgive the spacer but to have an industry standard crankset require a shim is inexcusable. It's akin to including a beer can with every frame so you can cut your own shim stock to make a seatpost fit. It's an easy mechanicking fix but on a frame this expensive it's embarrassing.
- Craig, Toronto

January 13, 2009

you have very quitley put one of the best cycling blogs together. thank you. bkw got away early but you seem to be bridging the gap quite fast. keep it up
- miguel , baja norte

January 12, 2009

on the other hand, the wheel incompatibility thing with the S3 is NOT an urban myth... certain wheels, including some popular aero wheels cannot be used with this frameset... right
- lawrence, Toronto

January 12, 2009

Interesting article. I think you highlight a new phenomenon. With the plethora of ready information on the internet, it's easy to think you can become an expert on just about anything. Then you read something like this and you realize that training and experience still count.
- Marc , Owen SOund